The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Other Amps: Anyone try experimenting with two amps?

Anyone try experimenting with two amps?

- Rated: 12 ↑
Jul 6, 2008 10:29 p.m. ObeJuan:

My Rectoverb is my primary amp (for punk & noise rock). I feel like I've dialed in the tone so now I'm experimenting with my other amps to find a two amp tone I like.

I was using my 60's Magnatone M14 for cleans and using an A/B switch but since I got my Recto modded the cleans are way better than the Maggie so its my one and only gig amp. The Maggie cranked or with a pedal sounds constipated so its not a good addition. I didn't try it clean with the Mesa crunch... guess I could try it and see what happens. Not sure if clean and dirty sounds work?

I also have two Silvertone 1484's with a cab filled with Weber P12 clones and it sounds great. Very tweed-like crunch and takes pedals really well.

So hears what I'm thinking. Voice the Mesa on the vintage channel for low/mid crunch and the Silvertone for the mid/high crunch using a pedal. Borrowed my friend's English Muffin and it seems to dial in that sound really well. After fixing the speaker phase issue, I tried this out tonight and liked what I heard. The Mesa was on Vintage with high at 9 oclock, mid at 3/4 and low adjusted 1-5 for loudness (started out too loud with the extra amp/speakers so had to back off the volume).

I went direct into a route 66 (its buffered) from my guitar (Gretsch Powerjet) then split the signal to the Mesa and Silvertone. I used the compression side of the Route 66 for a clean boost with the tone knob off.

On the Silvertone I had channel 1 high at 1 and low at 11 with a jumper cable to channel 2 with high at 3 and low at 10. Channel 2 volume was higher than channel 1. It sounded bright and crisp clean and with the English Muffin (tone stack Gain-2, h-9, m-5, L-5) gave off a high mid range grind that I thought complimented the Mesa's more modern sounding crunch. Was sort of like bringing the old sound together with the new. Thoughts on this?

What do you think of the two amp concept and the best way to dial in different complimentary tones? Jack White does it but not sure how he voices his silvertone vs fender twin.

Also, I tried adding other pedals (BD2, TS808, DM2, DM3, DD3, Muff Pi) without much success. Lots of mud with the overdrives, Muff was ok but didn't sound right in the Silvertone at the volumes I had (need to turn it up). The delays were better left to the effects loop on in front of the mesa (DD3). Does anyone have experience running delays/reverb on two amps?

I played bit clean and after some tone stack adjustments found a nice combo of sound. I can really dial in the Mesa clean channel to a warm fendery chime. I know that sounds impossible but the mod I got added a new Merc Mag OT and the tone stack was modded to make it more usable, chimey, and full sounding than your typical mesa nu metal machine. The Mesa clean channel tone stack is similar to the BF/SF fender tone stacks. Plus I've A/B'd it with my buddy's BF twin reverb and even he was amazed how good it sounded. The Mesa crunch channel is a cathode follower stack like Marshall and Tweed Bassmans. The mod I got removed all the buzzy bee like distortion all the nu metal and emo kids love.

Problem with the clean sound is I couldn't just jump back and forth from clean to dirty with the two amps unless I turned the silvertone down. Need to play with it more.
- Rated: 47 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:02 a.m. dignan:

I've been using my Ampeg SuperJet and Peavey Classic 30 - both 1x12 - in tandem for a while now.

The Ampeg is a 50w Class AB Fenderesque; the Peavey is a 30w Class A Voxalike. They are usually joined at the hip by a Barber Launch Pad, though a stereo delay or reverb are often tossed inbetween as well.
- Rated: 12 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:11 a.m. ObeJuan:

Nice... how do you dial them in to sound good together? Make them each sound good on their own then combine or is each amp dialed in differently?

I like those amps... the peavey is very vintage sounding and the ampeg is just a great sounding amp, crunch or clean. bet they sound good with the Firebird.
- Rated: 32 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:29 a.m. cyclopssam:

in what way? stereo is the way! once you've done stereo, the a/b thing will seem so pointless
- Rated: 47 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:43 a.m. dignan:

I just set up each one to sound good on its own and then tweak the mix with the Launch Pad. The LP really is a great amp-joiner. It's essentially a clean boost with two output channels, each with their own level control. It won't lose signal, unlike most cheap ABY boxes.

I owe Proteus for turning me on to those two amps (the PC30 specifically, and Ampeg guitar amps in general). The SJ-12T is a fantastic clean amp - I'm sure it could sound great overdriven, but I've never been brave or foolhardy enough to try. Really, I turned it up to 8 once and it only started to clip; my eardrums had given up and jumped ship after about 6.

The Peavey is of course a great little AC30 clone. Cranked, it's that Vox sound... but the clean channel sounds better than my Chinese AC30 ever did, almost as good as the Ampeg.

Played together, I like to set the PC30 to just-barely-breaking while the Ampeg is clean and bassy - the mix of fat botom and clangy top is wonderful.
- Rated: 21 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 2:49 p.m. DrGretsch:

I like to try different combinations like making my 70's Twin Reverb Head as my Base amp, then using different speaker cabinets like two Vox super Beatle Bottoms (Sometimes, but it's been years cause most of the clubs these days are too small - Lol!) and using a Gibson Atlas bottom with a 15" speaker or two seperated.

I also use two Blue Deluxe cabinets sometimes as extension speakers (just using the matching cabinets) and If I want a different sound, I may use the Blue Deluxes themselves via hooking them back up ,,, Also, now that I have a new Fender Super Reverb, I may use two of the tens if I want a higher pitched 10" sound.

I like to try different comibnations.

I also thought about going wireless and using a few different transmitter recievers for each amp hoping to capture different amps at differenbt locations .

Also, In recent years bought a Fender Frontline PA system and may mic some of the amps for more fullness.

I like to experiment!

Good post!
- Rated: 27 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 3:07 p.m. Deke Martin:

I'm with Sam. I like to set my rig up so my guitar feeds both my amp and the input to a RE-201. I then take the wet-only output of the 201 to another amp on the other side of the stage.

Man, that sound is BIG!
- Rated: 212 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 7:09 p.m. Proteus:

I've played with a lot of multi-amp rigs (up to five once, actually) for fun and aural stimulation in the basement – and a few times live, but there more for coverage and to split output from a looper than for tone.

Funny, my Classic 30 is often part of that mix, and the best complements to it are a closed-back 2-12 Ampeg or a 6L6-based Fender combo. The Ampeg provides the mass of moving air and low end authority; the Fenders ... well, you know. That Fender thing.

In all cases, it's a matter of finding complementary tone engines, which just involves listening, tweaking, and analysis. ObeJuan, you're clearly both auditory and analytical enough to get just what you want. I wouldn't presume to advise you about what amps to mix!

As for pedals, I've also split at the Launch Pad (which is next to last in my signal chain, just before the looper). A delay (just before the Launch Pad) is also a good place. Deke and DrG have the delay-to-2-amps thing sussed: the point is to get the dry signal and the delayed signal spread for that huge ambience.

And most delays are made for that, so they have two outs.

I LIKE that the two amps in any combo respond differently to whatever crunchbox I have in the chain: it's just that much more texture and dimension. But by all means if you identify one pedal as ideal for one amp, and a different one for the other amp, put them after the split and on the way to their respective amps.

The caveat there is that I generally don't like the result of distorting a delayed signal, so using a pair of crunchers each to a different amp might obviate splitting the signal at the delay.

One of the things I most enjoy about a two-amp rig is setting the reverbs differently on the two amps. If they're very different-sounding reverbs, all the better. But "differential reverb" seems to provide lush dimensionality without the washing-out that delay or chorus can introduce.
- Rated: 12 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 7:21 p.m. ObeJuan:

Cabs.. yes... been considering adding an extension cab with blue dogs or golds. I like your idea of mixing the Fenders with Vox cabs.

so many options and now wireless and PA... my brain is imploding.

Deke, what amps do you use?

Something I found tonight by trial and most definately error is using different size cables into each amp. Surprised me at how much delay it caused in the signal. Also had more pedals going to the Silvertone than the Mesa magnified the issue in a bad way (not a nice ambience). Don't have enough room to move the amps around in my practice space to see if some space between the amps would give a good sound.

Tonight I'm going to try this setup:

Powerjet - route 66 - cry baby - Muff Pi - Splitter Y - OD1 - Delay1 - Mesa (Delay2 in loop) - OD2 - Delay3 - Silvertone

The Silvertones have horrible reverb but decent tremolo. The Mesa has avg reverb so I'll throw in those options and see what happens with different combos of wet, dry and wet/dry. A Vox AC15/30 or Fender Reverb amp/unit would really add the reverb I need....

The OD's: EH English Muffin, Keeley BD2 The Delays: Keeley DD3, Boss DM2, and DM3
- Rated: 12 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 7:35 p.m. ObeJuan:

Proteus said: A delay (just before the Launch Pad) is also a good place.

I was thinking of asking this very question about the launch pad placement. I don't have a good splitter and I like the idea of keeping my amps dialed where I like them and controlling the levels at the end of the chain with a launch pad... hmmm. Great info fellas thanks!
- Rated: 83 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 8:25 p.m. Mark Synchro:

The thing I like most about having two amps is that I can set up each of the amps to do whatever it is that they do best. For my occasional excursions into overdrive I really prefer the sound of an amp crank up as opposed to an effects pedal. I've done a bit using a Blues Jr and a Pro Jr in paralell with a Morely A/B/Y switch. That and an RE-20 up front works well for me.
- Rated: 32 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:43 p.m. cyclopssam:

here we go......i don't know what a launch pad is?... i use a 4 channel line mixer helps keeps things in order which has a e/x loop>>>>> pedal board...guitar>octo fuzz>>>metal zone>>hyperfuzz>>pich shiter to chanel (1(left) and channel 2)(right)back to boardtrem/pan(pedal board)too BBE(in RACK) in>>> out to heads(hiwatts100 OL'S)

racks: korg A3 into fx loop ofdigitech 2101,also midi'd. inturn the 2101 go's into the f/x loop of mixer,yes everything stays true l/r stereo."dry" head gets the house mic with i turn down JUST a hair, the "wet"head mine! stage head i turn as lould as i see fit,BRA,HA,HA!.....PHEWW!... yeah too crazy,but it's your rig best foot forward,nobody wants to see dsome smuck on stage w/8" crate combo&the sound it would bring forth,ha! (((((IMHO))) GOOD LUCK obe
- Rated: 212 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:52 p.m. Proteus:

You're one of my favorite maniacs, sam.

You're going to have to draw a diagram of that rig. I want to understand it, sure...but I also want to drag it out when people mock my humble board as overkill.
- Rated: 212 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:54 p.m. Proteus:

And I HAVE to get some of that Pich Shiter to Chanel #1 – does it come in bottles or a tin?
- Rated: 32 ↑
Jul 7, 2008 9:59 p.m. cyclopssam:

HA! i wish i knew how,it's nothing compared to david gilmore's rig,yes it's a lot o wiring,my guys use to look at the backend&just turn it back around&say WTF!,ha! the pitchshifter starts the signal splitting,i think i counted7-10 chorus splits,wet/dry mixer is your best riend,invaluble! as my pal sketter once said "sam sounds like motorhead,metalica&venom all rolled into one" then i hit the pich shiter......
- Rated: 4 ↑
Jul 8, 2008 1:44 a.m. happydog:

Damn, I was going to talk about my playing through my Ampeg Jet II and my solid state Rickenbacker amp from the 70s and how cool that was, but you guys outgunned me for sure on that one.

I like to turn the tremolo on in both amps, stand between them and adjust the tremolo speed/depth (and of course the reverb) until it gets psychedelic.
- Rated: 41 ↑
Jul 8, 2008 3:04 p.m. dubkitty:

ooh, nice. if i had 2 amps with vibrato, i'd have to try that for the My Bloody Valentine effect. through the sickest fuzztone i could find.
- Rated: 12 ↑
Jul 10, 2008 10:41 a.m. ObeJuan:

Since I started this thread you guys gave some great suggestions and experiences. Its only fair I give you an update on how things went the other night.

Was playing loud to a song loop. Tried the two amps with Vibrato (Magnatone and Silvertone) with a muff pi (sick but not a fuzztone) and a DM2 to mimic some reverb because the reverb sucks in my Silvertone... got a pretty good sound. I love MBV too and was messing around to see what I could get. The fuzz (or OD) through the Magnatone is not so great sounding. I think the circuits are just not right for crunch tones. I've opened it up and has those great molded caps Fender used to use in their BF and early SF models but its a birds nest and I can't find a schematic. Someday I'm going to mod that amp to sound better (keeping it all reversable to stock if I sell) but for now it will just wait behind better sounding amps. Sucks because if you guys ever heard the Magnatone Vibrato, its the best sounding vibrato I've ever heard in my opinion. Really swirly and warm.

Back to the core sound I was looking for, I did hook things up with the Mesa and Silvertone starting with the best sounds and pedals for each then combining per all your suggestions. It took me a few hours but found a nice range of sounds that covered a lot of what I play and what I like to play on my own.

The most interesting sounds in my opinion were the clean sounds. I mean I'm a punk at heart but a great clean sound with reverb and/or vibrato is heaven as well. And with the Powerjet set to both pickups and the master turned down (did the treble bleed mod)was chimey and screamed for some surf. The two amps really complimented each other with the Mesa providing more chime and the Silvertone a tweed like moan. The only pedal I used was the Route 66 for some compression/sustain but even with all pedals off there was plenty to like.

Then I did some grind and found a great thing, that's probably obvious to many of you but was an eye opener for me. When I set the amps to sound best clean individually, I kept those settings and just added OD Fuzz and delay to each per my plan above. After adjusting pedals and outputs I was able to get a great OD driven crunch (Gretsch bridge pickup mud switch middle). The BD2 drove the Mesa and the English Muffin drove the Silvertone giving different voicings and a really nice full sound. I would love to try a VOX AC15 or 30 in place of the Silvertone and compare. The English Muffin sort of mimics the Vox sound somewhat. I bet the realy think would sound really nice.

The best part is the flexibility. I can go from clean to Fuzz or bluesy crunch with one button push or could get a different crunch with the individual OD on each amp. Then finally there's the over the top option... a switch to the Mesa vintage channel set for high gain and the silvertone with the English Muffin was just sweet and over the top (if you guys know the NYC band Casualties, its like their sound but a bit browner). A definate improvement to my core tone I thought. I need to get some SM57 mic's to record this (ours were stolen) and see what you guys think.

I can't wait to get back and play the rig again. I still need to tweek some of the options and find a way to get a good wet sound in the mix but this whole process is inspiring me to create some new stuff.
- Rated: 0 ↑
Aug 6, 2008 5:00 p.m. GretschKiller5129:

jcm800+fender frontman 2x12. both at once.slight delay to the fender.
- Rated: 212 ↑
Aug 6, 2008 5:21 p.m. Proteus:

Yeah, and?
- Rated: 32 ↑
Aug 6, 2008 7:42 p.m. cyclopssam:

This post has been deleted
- Rated: 32 ↑
Aug 6, 2008 7:42 p.m. cyclopssam:

dosen't that drive you crazy?(the uneven sound...)
- Rated: 25 ↑
Aug 7, 2008 6:20 a.m. billydlight:

Guitar to fender reverb tank to DiMarzio A/B box out to 59 Standel S80 and a Blackstar Artisan 30. Blackstar has that GREAT AC30 sound. I played it against one of the new hand wired ACs and it kicked its ass.

Here's a pic of the rig. I know it will be hard to concentrate on gear with that handsome devil right in the middle of the pic but...
- Rated: 57 ↑
Aug 7, 2008 7:41 a.m. Curt:

Where's the ball return?

BOWLING
- Rated: 25 ↑
Aug 7, 2008 3:27 p.m. billydlight:

I love playing bowling alleys

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Anyone try experimenting with two amps?

Jul 6, 2008 10:29 p.m. ObeJuan:

Jul 7, 2008 9:02 a.m. dignan:

Jul 7, 2008 9:11 a.m. ObeJuan:

Jul 7, 2008 9:29 a.m. cyclopssam:

Jul 7, 2008 9:43 a.m. dignan:

Jul 7, 2008 2:49 p.m. DrGretsch:

Jul 7, 2008 3:07 p.m. Deke Martin:

Jul 7, 2008 7:09 p.m. Proteus:

Jul 7, 2008 7:21 p.m. ObeJuan:

Jul 7, 2008 7:35 p.m. ObeJuan:

Jul 7, 2008 8:25 p.m. Mark Synchro:

Jul 7, 2008 9:43 p.m. cyclopssam:

Jul 7, 2008 9:52 p.m. Proteus:

Jul 7, 2008 9:54 p.m. Proteus:

Jul 7, 2008 9:59 p.m. cyclopssam:

Jul 8, 2008 1:44 a.m. happydog:

Jul 8, 2008 3:04 p.m. dubkitty:

Jul 10, 2008 10:41 a.m. ObeJuan:

Aug 6, 2008 5:00 p.m. GretschKiller5129:

Aug 6, 2008 5:21 p.m. Proteus:

Aug 6, 2008 7:42 p.m. cyclopssam:

Aug 6, 2008 7:42 p.m. cyclopssam:

Aug 7, 2008 6:20 a.m. billydlight:

Aug 7, 2008 7:41 a.m. Curt:

Aug 7, 2008 3:27 p.m. billydlight:

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