The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Other Guitars: P-90s Are Primitive Say Some Do You Agree?

P-90s Are Primitive Say Some Do You Agree?

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- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:08 a.m. ThePolecats:

There is a guitar tech who says P90s are very primitive pickups. I don't think he likes them either. You can say they are primitive and still like them. Primitive in the sense that they are simple in design and are basic. But aren't most pickups even humbuckers? Humbuckers are two coiled pickups instead of one. I think the physics of pickups is basic really. Coil, wire, bobbin, pole pieces (magnetic or not), if your poles are not magnetic you have a magnet bar underneath like a P90. All this guy's guitars that he makes have humbuckers as I saw it. He's a nice guy and a good tech and I agree P90s are primitive in that sense, since they are basic. But as far as not sounding good I think they sound fabulous.

Now the DeArmond I think are a complex and very non-primitive pickups in the sense it's not that basic. Look at the underside of it. Look at the inner workings, there are a lot of things going on there. Then the Alnico Staple Magnet single coil by Gibby. Those are pretty complex too I think but not as much as the DeArmond or Dyna.

What do you guys think about the primitive statement by the guitar tech?

ThePolecats
- Rated: 47 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:40 a.m. dignan:

Does this tech also judge guitars by whether or not they're a Les Paul?
- Rated: 30 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:45 a.m. JazzBoxJunky:

I think primitive or primal is a great way to describe it, but that's the GOOD news, just pure basic tone. Listen to this clip with the Charlie Christian single coil, perhaps the most primal single coil, what's wrong with this sound?

Barney
- Rated: 31 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:47 a.m. do not be afraid:

i don't think they are any more "primitive" than, say, a humbucker (heck, a humbucker is just two half-strength P-90s, reverse-wound/reverse-polarity, and wired in series! so they're maybe 1 step up on the evolutionary ladder, at best), but they sure as hell sound a lot more "primitive" — and that's why i love 'em!
- Rated: 66 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:48 a.m. Walter Broes:

Yep, long live primitive guitar pickups!
- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:48 a.m. ThePolecats:

dignan that's a good point. I'm not sure if he doesn't like non-Les Pauls but I think he does like Les Pauls. If that's the case I get why he is all big on Gibson humbuckers and low on P90s.

He made a guitar that was set neck, had the Ric look to it but had humbuckers. I never saw one of his guitars he made with P90s or anything other than humbuckers. He's a good tech. I sometimes go to him but normally go to another tech who appreciates P90s and Gretsches big time.

Gibson humbuckers are okay but kinda bland to me altho I like Slash's sound. See I say sound not tone. I guess even tho he plays well and I like his playing style the tone is still that of a humbucker equipped guitar but I still like the sound. Sound and tone not always the same even tho often times synonymous.

ThePolecats
- Rated: 58 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:48 a.m. yettoblaster:

A simple , proven, design. Primitive. Yes.

It solved a problem in an elegant way (how to get a guitar heard in a band).

Certainly there have been advancements in design and hum-cancelation since, but not in sound.
- Rated: 21 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 11:08 a.m. DrumBob:

What connotes "primitive?" The P-90 to me, is one of the greatest pickups ever invented. It's a single coil pickup with balls, which reminds me of how much I want another Les Paul Junior. I think your buddy doesn't know what he's talking about.
- Rated: 41 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 11:20 a.m. J(esse James)D:

All single coils are "primitive" IMO.

And.............the older I get the more "primitive" I get. I love single coils and of course, Filtertrons.
- Rated: 31 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 12:12 p.m. do not be afraid:

i can't agree that "all single coils are 'primitive'" — i mean, the G&L MFDs are about as high-tech as it gets (even though they've been around for ages now…)
- Rated: 56 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 1:04 p.m. fieldhdj:

To my ears, it is the best pickup to ever come from Gibson - I like many of the modern variants too. A perfect compliment to the snappier Fender single coils - mids that are beautiful as-is or dirtied up.

And I'm with DrumBob - there is something about an LP Jr. style guitar that is kind of liberating - simple, pure, potent.
- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 1:29 p.m. Guitardo:

P-90s are simple, rugged, and primitive. I would agree with this tech. Every guitar I buy I seem to throw P-90s in it. There's only one hum-bucker in the house and it's a FilterTron. There's isn't a cheaper and simpler way to get great sound. There's no elaborate mounting to do and there's a variety if colors to choose from. Cream OR black. Now that should accomodate most every guitar player.

My question is that if P-90s are so cherished, why are so few guitar manufacturers willing to go down that road? I'd be tickled pink to see more achtops with P-90s. Solid bodied guitars might as well not exist to me, so that's not even a factor.

My advice is to tell Crunch Berry to take his hum-buckers and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. Real men don't need no stinkin' hum-buckers.

FilterTrons are the middle ground though.
- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 2:08 p.m. ThePolecats:

Guitardo, you said it well. I agree with what you say except I do like solid bodies too.

As far as Chuck Berry goes he scoffs at the idea that there is a difference in pickups, I mean between P90s and humbuckers. To him, Chuck Berry is Chuck Berry and he doesn't even think about the P90 vs humbucker thing.

ThePolecats
- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 2:10 p.m. ThePolecats:

Drumbob, yeah he's a guitar tech I go to once in awhile. He does good work tho. I think he's a product of the whole Les Paul culture that is probably why he likes humbuckers. And yes Paul Jrs with the P90s exist of course but the Les Paul culture I find focuses more on Page and Slash with a Les Paul with humbuckers than they do P90s.

ThePolecats
- Rated: 45 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 3:00 p.m. Tsar Nicholas :

I really need some freaking P90s!

I am primitive..
- Rated: 12 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 3:05 p.m. Chonny:

P90s are awesome.
- Rated: 14 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 3:07 p.m. ThePolecats:

Well I think the guy saying that, the guitar tech prefers humbuckers period but I think he was talking from a technical aspect. But as myself and others have pointed out that humbuckers are primitive too then because they are just two coils instead of one.
- Rated: 5 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 3:15 p.m. lizardville:

My cheap squire with p90's is way louder than my gretsches, and i keep wondering why a $200 guitar can beat in volumen a silver jet that cost 10 times more...!!
- Rated: 26 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 3:34 p.m. TomfromPA:

How old is the tech?

Most the icons we revere in the guitar world today were conceived and built in the early '50s? In today's high tech fashion forward market, primitive gear like Dynasonic Gretsches, Les Pauls, Stratocasters, Telecasters, Fender Tweed Bassman amps, etc are still center stage, main event fixtures.

I'm with the crowd that prefers Gibson's P90s to their Humbuckers. We're for sure in the minority of Gibson's fan base though.
- Rated: 212 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 4:00 p.m. Proteus:

What do you guys think about the primitive statement by the guitar tech?

I think you're right: it's a primitive statement. It could only come from someone with a naive understanding of technology and its history, and who doesn't distinguish between technical complication and functionality.

They aren't the same thing.

As high-tech goes, commercially successful electric guitars ain't. The whole continuum of primitive-to-advanced, which might mean something in some areas of technology, is just irrelevant to guitars.

Tell the guy humbuckers are Neaderthal next to Gibson's new digital Les Paul. If he wants to really keep up, that's what he ought to play. In fact, I think he shouldn't work on anything BUT digital Les Pauls.
- Rated: 54 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 6:38 p.m. tartan phantom:

Polecats,

Since your tech is so big on Les Pauls, tell him I've got a '56 Les Paul Goldtop for sale for only $2500.00

Ooops, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that it has stock freakin' P-90's! Sorry, I'm sure he wouldn't be interested.... sale cancelled.

...primitive? Of course they're primitive! If you don't want primitive, install a Roland synth hex pickup! geez...
- Rated: 18 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 6:51 p.m. jimmy peters:

who in hell does this guy think he is? he may not like them, but to say a derogative remark about the most popular pup in the world, is just plain stupid. please print and show him my message.

good luck jimmy peters
- Rated: 26 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 7:06 p.m. marctrain57:

Primitive, of course the're primitive, that the whole point. That's why they are such great pups.

If you have any doubt start listening ti "Live at Leeds" and tell me if that isn't a great sound. Problem is finding the very best one out there in this decade. I'd love to have a real 67 SG.
- Rated: 30 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 9:25 p.m. greg:

If i had to live with one pu it would be a P-90
- Rated: 115 ↑
Oct 26, 2007 10:02 p.m. wenzel:

As primitive as gretsch guitars are in today's society. I would smack anyone in the chops if they said that to me! I like quirky old world instruments and technology anyway, why do you think tube amps are still around or analog or tape echo's? P-90's had a good classic simple recipe and they sound good... Don't believe those opinions, formulate your own...