The Gretsch Pages: Discussions: Miscellaneous Rumbles: Why do we feel LOUD is better?

Why do we feel LOUD is better?

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- Rated: 25 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 1:51 p.m. Parabar:

When the sound is mixed right, loud and full just feels really good --- the kick drum thumps you in the solar plexus, the bass vibrates your bones, and every molecule in your body is vibrating to the music, so it's a "full-body" experience. When it starts getting louder than that --- or if the treble is disproportionately loud --- then it starts to register as loud in your ears, or shrill or painful --- not so good. And being too loud for the room just causes all the overtones to muddy up on each other, like colors bleeding into each other and turning into brown. But that sweet spot of big, loud sound that's just right for the venue --- mmmmm!!
- Rated: 57 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 3:11 p.m. Curt:

But that sweet spot of big, loud sound that's just right for the venue --- mmmmm!!
Well stated!
- Rated: 6 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 3:27 p.m. Echosonic:

Well Yngwie says to play loud, so it must be good to play loud.
- Rated: 25 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 3:38 p.m. billydlight:

I said... WHAT?? WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?? HUH?
- Rated: 6 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:10 p.m. Echosonic:

Do you think that Phil Spector is slightly responsible for loud music in general? Sure the wall of sound on those Ronnnettes and Crystals songs are only as loud as you turn them up but the whole idea of this big loud full soundscape is his. Okay some of you might come up with someone who was doing something similar before him, you know maybe some of those Classical guys centuries before him but in modern music he had that big bold wall of sound. Do you think that brought modern pop music into a new era or new dimension? Okay he's nuts and is on trial now but forget that for a moment, but do you think Spector kinda launched music into a different plateau that lead to louder music or a louder music mentality?
- Rated: 37 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:24 p.m. MR TROUBLE:
- Rated: 20 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:35 p.m. TwangOmatic:

Well to be blunt we think louder is better because it is up to a certain point. The human ear is more sensitive to low frequencies at higher volume i think it's called the fletcher-munsen effect. Also the human brain seem to precieve bass at visceral levels as powerful and awe inspiring this is why churches use massive pipe organs to give the illusion of godly power. When it comes to dynamic range there isn't much more dynamic music than orchestral music and when is the last time you heard a quiet orchestra? and how can you have a dynamic range of 60db if your max volume is only 40db? At a certain point human ear compression or amp/speaker compression kicks in but that's why i said "up to a certain point". As a seller of high end audio i guarantee if i blind fold someone and ask them to listen to 2 different stereo's but use the same stereo for both tests but in test B i turn the volume up 3db the person will almost always prefer the 3db louder setting. With all that said i still would agree that things are getting too loud at least live shows now of course distortions of all different kinds including room acoustics play a big role and i think there are a lot of shitty sound men out there too.
- Rated: 6 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:41 p.m. Echosonic:

My church doesn't have a pipe organ but I know churches traditionally do. We have loud guitars and drums. Gotta a guy on a Gretsch Jet with FilterTrons then the guy on a Strat or sometimes ES-335. The piano/keyboard you can not hear as well.
- Rated: 14 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:47 p.m. BuddyMercury:

play to the drums...
- Rated: 20 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:56 p.m. TwangOmatic:

Sounds like a cool church Echo I think its mostly roman catholic churches that use the massive pipe organs. Just as i hit add post on my last post i though of a bunch of other reasons why louder is better and why sometimes at a concert it may not seem that way but i gotta stop myself i could probably go on for pages discussing this interesting subject but i hate typing. One last experience i must just put out there for people to ponder is that if I have a $300 stereo and $30,000 stereo and set them to the same volume the $300 will be precieved as louder by a human.
- Rated: 35 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 4:57 p.m. crowbone:

I Love it loud, and I could not imagine going to see the Ramones, X, Ted Nugent, AC/DC, or Yes even, if it wasn't loud.

That being said, playing loud is usually a competition between the drummer and guitarists, and I've only recently started to play with musicians who play for the song's sake, not so you can hear their relentless tweedeling like guitar center on Saturday afternoon.

That is a big relief.
- Rated: 20 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 5:03 p.m. TwangOmatic:

Thats funny crowbone as a drummer in a punk band i always found the volume wars were between the bass player and guitarist. Most likely because i could only play at 1 volume which was full bore. After that band i tryed to play some jazz and stuff and realize that im a really crappy drummer.
- Rated: 6 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 5:24 p.m. Echosonic:

Twang, you bring up a point about the $300 vs the $30,000 stereo. Depending on the stereo some sound better than others. I never heard a 30K stereo but what I mean is I've had stereos that sound good and some so so. The good ones sound fuller and the ones that aren't as good sound kinda thin. The fuller and better ones don't have to be played as loud maybe. Maybe a subwoofer can make a cheap stereo sound better too.
- Rated: 35 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 5:53 p.m. crowbone:

Twang,

Is that Walt Whitman in your avatar?

Anyway...I guess it depends on your place in the band perhaps?

We had a drummer who would have to beat louder than our lead player, and so started the war.
- Rated: 20 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 5:54 p.m. TwangOmatic:

Good point echo my example was a pretty sloppy one equalization has a lot to do with perceived volume. Part of what i ment was a cheap system is going to have some unpleasant distortion that will sound harsh and too loud. For example i recently sold a very good system to a buddy of mine and he wanted to show it off to his brother so he cranked it up. With a ho hum look on his face his brother looked at him and mouthed the words "It's not that loud". My buddy smiled as he looked at the new expression of shock on this brothers face and turned the volume down. When he did so his brother with a change of attitute said "holy shit i couldn't even hear my own voice".
- Rated: 20 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:02 p.m. TwangOmatic:

crowbone said: Is that Walt Whitman in your avatar?

No but it does sorta look like him. It's actually Charles Darwin i think..... Or maybe its Santa Clause
- Rated: 35 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:07 p.m. crowbone:

Imagine Darwin as Santa:

"You don't get a present, it's not in your destiny".

See the resemblance?
- Rated: 6 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:11 p.m. Echosonic:

Or Grandpa Walton?
- Rated: 13 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:14 p.m. Catdaddy1967:

TwangOmatic said: ...his brother with a change of attitute said "holy shit i couldn't even hear my own voice

I had exactly the same thing at an outdoor 60's gig that a friend was doing the PA for. 40k rig. I was only a few feet from the stacks. It honestly didn't seem that loud at all - my ears weren't hurting or anything. So I tried to strike a conversation up with another friend I was with. Obviously, I couldn't.

Moral of the story - clean volume doesn't seem to be that loud.

And oh yeah, it's deffo Charles Darwin...
- Rated: 13 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:16 p.m. Catdaddy1967:

(And if Charles Darwin really IS Santa, there are a few people I know who could do with a pair of new genes for Christmas!)
- Rated: 2 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:21 p.m. RedWineRocker:

OK....i get two things out of this: 1) Its the drummer!...of which I am...OK,it IS to a point.I can scale back no problem but your gonna have to pony up a little bit or it ain't rock & roll....maybe louds a repect for the past thing?!? 2) Penis thing!....no shit.....power-machismo...i always try to start low( cause i agree low is good)...but the party starts and all bets are off...lets rock.
- Rated: 32 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 6:44 p.m. cyclopssam:

that's called headroom
- Rated: 20 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 7:05 p.m. TwangOmatic:

Oh my Catdaddy you nearly made me wet myself nice one.

RedWine you made me think of another factor in this whole volume discussion. Our ears sort of clamp down when exposed to high volume so after playing for a little while it may not seem quite loud enough and you might turn it to compensate for the fact that your ears aren't quite working as efficiently as they were when you started.
- Rated: 40 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 8:17 p.m. Pseudo Man:

You're spot on Twangomatic, the frequency response of the ear is at it's flattest around 90 dbs, the "comfortable" level for listening to loud music.
- Rated: 19 ↑
Nov 11, 2008 8:59 p.m. CnW:

"Ted Nugent---UNPLUGGED!!!"

They'd be rioting in the streets for that one.