Well, I've routed off new binding before without burning, I'm not sure about old binding. If you are going to just replace a section of binding, I might use the dremel pencil type unit. This is much less violent than a full speed router or lam trimmer. You could sneak up on it more. Of course you could slow the router down with one of those electrical speed control boxes.
Andy's "57" Chet Atkins 6121 Jet. Watch as it gets repaired.
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- Rated: 29 ↑
Apr 3, 2008 1:53 p.m. JazzBoxJunky:
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Apr 3, 2008 2:41 p.m. hypnofonic:
no worries, you can put the remnants of that bridge in your scrap wood pile. its not the right shape or length anyway...
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Apr 3, 2008 4:07 p.m. JackDaniels:
Ha ha, I put it in my Spare-Wood box. I think it was ebony. If I need to fill holes that I drill in an ebony board, I now have a match.
BTW: Last night I filled the holes I drilled in your fingerboard too. I just need to sand it up a little and replace the fret.
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Apr 3, 2008 4:12 p.m. JackDaniels:
JBJ, I ordered a Router base for my dremel last week. Maybe I can try that approach first. I might make a stand for the dremel like the full size you you showed me.
I need to look at the guitar more, but yeah I was thinking of just removing the first White layer of binding. Then fix the black. The rebind the whole outer edge. Andy thought there was a second bad section on the top though. I don't recall. If there is two bad sections, I may just pull it all and hope for the best.
Thanks for everyones suggestions. The one thing about posting "work as you go" photos and comments online while your performing the work is everyone gets to see the mistakes and the blunders. If I would have just posted the before and after shots, I would have made myself look a whole lot smarter. LOL!
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- Rated: 29 ↑
Apr 3, 2008 6:24 p.m. JazzBoxJunky:
This was the attachment I was thinking of.
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Apr 3, 2008 7:18 p.m. 57 Chet :
JackDaniels said: 57 Chet, Does the neck on yours actually have a ledge or bump on it in the cutway?
Umm? I'm not quite sure what you're asking ... It's not flush with the body... Does this picture answer the question? - back view
I'm sure you and Andy have seen the other pictures on my site. I'm sorry they are kind of spread around. If you need any more detailed pictures, or measurements, let me know and I can take them for you over the weekend.
Edit - Oh yeah, if you didn't know, click on the picture on the link and it enlarges slightly.
Cheers!
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- Rated: 24 ↑
Apr 3, 2008 8:25 p.m. KCeddieB:
Hey Joe,
Great work... and a great thread! Since your taking on charity Gretsch restoration projects I was wondering if you could help me out with this '56 Streamliner (yes... this is a '56 6190!). Shouldn't take too much work to get her back to stock... right?!
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Apr 3, 2008 11:27 p.m. JackDaniels:
Sure Eddie. For you.....1 MEELLION DOLLARS! MU HA HA HAA HAAAAAA
WTF happend to that one? There is not one peice of useable Gretsch anything on that!
JD
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Apr 3, 2008 11:28 p.m. JackDaniels:
57 Chet, the one on ebay and Andy's necks are flush to the cutaway. Your is slightly offset to the cutaway. Which is right or are both?
Thanks,
JD
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Apr 4, 2008 1:14 a.m. Murphy:
this has been a fun thread to read. I have been lucky enough to spend some time helping out at tom ribbeckes shop lately, and have learned alot about how detailed a pro can get when building a guitar. I have a '62 gretsch corsair that needs a neck reset and it's nice read up on threads like this , someday I will get the nerve to work on mine.
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Apr 4, 2008 4:21 p.m. JackDaniels:
Ok, I call this next installment:
"LEARNING A NEW SKILL ON SOMEONE ELSES EXPENSIVE GUITAR"
Andy and I have spoken quite a bit about his guitar and the old binding. I have been adimit that I didn't want to do a full top-bind on his guitar. But them someone said "IT A 6121!" It's not like it some import copy. It is the real freak'n deal. I think only a few hundred were probably made. A FREAK'N 6121!
Ok, I will just let the next picture answer the question of what I did this afternoon.
Here ya go Andy. I guess you win!
We will have to talk this weekend. The original binding is somewhat available, but is considered hazardious materials. It carries an extra cost for the shipping of HAZMAT etc. And it appears it may be someone toxic to work with. I am looking at what all that intails. The other is the standard WBW that is identical in size and shape, but is not of the ivory-oid family.
Anyway, I am off to a few gigs this weekend.
JD
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Apr 4, 2008 4:25 p.m. JackDaniels:
Oops sorry: The binding is off the top. Minimal chips in the orange top coats. Not sure if I can match it, but most are very small. A few small chips here and there in mahogany. Small enought that the nitro should fill it.
Here is the lovely couple together. The headstock is waiting a clear coat to hide the plugged holes.
Now have a good weekend.
JD
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Apr 4, 2008 4:52 p.m. 58falcon:
Bro, you've come this far, and you're worrying about matching the color of a refin? I'd be thinkin' redo. Before you say, "Yeah, but you aren't the one that has to do it," let me tell ya, I have. What you've done so far is by far the worst of it. Your customer should be thrilled and pony up for what ever to make that one 100%. Nice work!
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- Rated: 47 ↑
Apr 4, 2008 4:58 p.m. Curt:
Maybe this was answered, because so much steam was used are you going to give some extra "shrink" time?
I don't do these projects because as it is I still can't find enough time to play!
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Apr 4, 2008 5:42 p.m. JackDaniels:
I had to let the neck and joint dry out for about 2 days before I started working it. It has now been about 5 or 6 days. I will be a week or more before the binding comes in. So I would say in the 2-3 weeks before I can spray, it should be pretty darn dry. Right now it seems fine, but in a few weeks there should be no problems.
It's not that I couldn't do the refin...its that I hope I don't have to. This one was pretty decent considering the work that was done prior to the finish....
JD
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- Rated: 4 ↑
Apr 4, 2008 5:44 p.m. hypnofonic:
hahah see what happens when you drink some quervo! liquid courage. i knew you could do it, joe.
that friggin rules man!
58falcon, ofcourse i am thrilled! my 3 month old son is being delivered to his new home in chicago as we speak.
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Apr 4, 2008 6:52 p.m. 57 Chet :
JackDaniels said: 57 Chet, the one on ebay and Andy's necks are flush to the cutaway. Your is slightly offset to the cutaway. Which is right or are both?
That's a question for Dan Duffy. You've seen my photos. That's the way it came from the factory. I suspect they could have come out flush as well. Judging from your numbers my 6121 was very early '57 or possibly late '56. Things could have changed after mine.Anyway, keep up the good work. It is a pleasure watching the progress.
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Apr 4, 2008 6:56 p.m. 57 Chet :
Well, I just looked at your numbers and my 6121 is the first guitar listed for 1957.
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Apr 4, 2008 7:15 p.m. KCeddieB:
57 Chet,
I'm thinking that both yours and Andy's were manufactured in '56. Yours is from 1 batch prior to the group Andy's is from. There's an example from Andy's batch with an original bill of sale from Jan. 57. So both of these would have had to been produced earlier.
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Apr 4, 2008 7:25 p.m. 57 Chet :
Oh No!
I'm going to have to change my name ...
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Apr 4, 2008 10:30 p.m. TyPierce:
This thread keeps getting cooler and cooler...
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Apr 4, 2008 10:42 p.m. Antik:
This post has been deleted
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Apr 5, 2008 6:13 a.m. Ratrod:
Hazardous materials in binding? Like what? Plasicizer? Like polyethyleen?
Probaly a whole gram of the stuff. Quick, call Hazmat!
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Apr 5, 2008 10:44 a.m. Diga:
Great thread, have enjoyed reading , and watching, all of it. Cannot wait to see the finished product. Great work JD.
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- Rated: 28 ↑
Apr 5, 2008 1:26 p.m. JackDaniels:
This may end up the longes thread of the year... Ha ha. On the old board we had lots of long threads going. I guess we are all talked out.
Today I cleaned out the binding channel and its all nice and straight and clean. It will take a while to get the binding. I am guess that it is considered Hazmat due to it being flamable. It's probably somewhat nitrocleulious or something. Remember the smell of the old guitar pics? They just had that smell to them. I guess in todays age, those would be considered hazmat too.
Well the binding was actually not difficult to get out, but you have to go really slow. Mahogany sides rip very easy. Mahogany is grainy but in short patterns. So it tears off little pieces real easy. I only had one tear that I re-glued, Its just a sliver but I reattached it.
There was also a few spots that the top had lifted by neck jointw which was a left over reminant of the first reset. I could see the bulge before I had even started the neck joint. Once I got the neck off, I clean out from under it. In one of the binding removal photos, you can see some masking tape near the neck joint. That is where I glued the top back down.
Here is a cool chunk of construction history I did not know: Normally, the headstock overlay is a thin piece of veneer. At least once we started seeing the Horse shoe that is what we see. 6120's have maple necks, so this just caps them off. But on this guitar it has a mahogany neck. The top cap on the headstock is not veneer. It is the same material as the top of the guitar. It is a three layer of plywood over the mahogany neck. So I guess on Mahogany necked Gretsch (which is not many), they did not use the same headstock veneer. I find this interesting...especially on a 6121. The 6121 is the same headstock oriments as the 6120. I had just assumed it was the same veneer.
