Joe,
Am I correct in thinking that the B3 your working on for Andy's axe has the "Duane Eddy" style handle... in that the part that stops the handle from swiveling too far is located on the handle by the bolt, as opposed to being on the the base, like all the modern Bigsby designs? 
Andy's "57" Chet Atkins 6121 Jet. Watch as it gets repaired.
« » Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12-
- Rated: 27 ↑
Apr 9, 2008 11:03 p.m. KCeddieB:
-
- Rated: 4 ↑
Apr 10, 2008 9:54 a.m. hypnofonic:
yep, it has a repro "duane eddy" handle. and yeah the swivel stop is built in on the handle itself. unfortuantely, i cannot find a real one to save my life so i have to settle for a repop. 57 would have had the cast handle (like 57chets). also some of you may have noticed, it is an early b3 but it also has the more current 4 hole shorty mounting plate (orig, not a repop)... i cannot find the pointed 3 hole base and when i got that one i just went with it. oh well. i love anything cast aluminum.
joe, that looks amazing!! unfortunately i do not have any before pics.. great job on the bigsby!!!!!!!
the headstock looks great too. i've had those sta-tites for soooo long in a box, i knew some day i would finally get to use them!
-
- Rated: 8 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 1:18 a.m. Grazer:
JackDaniels said: 57 Chet, the one on ebay and Andy's necks are flush to the cutaway. Your is slightly offset to the cutaway. Which is right or are both?
What a fascinating thread ... and it is only half way through. I got up a bit early today and started reading this at 5.30 - it is now 8.00. Well, I'm a slow reader.
Because I joined this ride a bit late this comment is going to be way out of the timeline context but since the neck and body are still separate it is not too late to post.
It might be entirely irrelevant - as it is a different vintage and therefore different neck joint construction but ... unlike 57Chet's 6121 the body/neck joint on the 6130 Round Up I had (virtually a 6121 but without the cowboy stuff) is pretty much flush with the body at the heel and ALMOST flush at the cutaway.
I know that the question of heels flush to the body has been asked before and maybe Joe's discovery of the mortice & tenon joint on the '57 Jet models is key to that issue.
On the off-chance that it could possibly be useful I will post the pics here. Photos of the whole guitar remain on my site:
-
- Rated: 4 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 2:27 a.m. hypnofonic:
wow, that roundup is amazing!!!!!!! i never realized that the leather sides fit flush with the body! so was the body routed so it could sit down flush with the sides?
-
- Rated: 4 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 3:14 a.m. candyapplegrey:
nice birds confused look
-
- Rated: 31 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 3:58 a.m. Danman:
This post has been deleted
-
- Rated: 31 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 3:58 a.m. Danman:
Hi Hypnofonic:
There has been an item posted here called: Roundup project on EBAY.
It is a completely gutted round up and you can see the the routing on the side of the body there. I was surprised too when I saw that.
-
- Rated: 4 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 9:18 a.m. hypnofonic:
yeah i saw that a while ago... i even forwarded that to joe asking him if he's ready for his second project.. joking ofcourse, but i noticed it got pulled pretty quick, the guy must have gotten a good offer for it. watching the pickups possibly for my 57 but they are at 250 each with one day left... i really dont have the dough (nor the desire to spend 500 bones even though they are real and correct dynas)..
-
- Rated: 31 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 9:31 a.m. Danman:
hypnofonic: said: i really dont have the dough (nor the desire to spend 500 bones even though they are real and correct dynas)
Yeah I know what you mean. And then still: not all vintage dyna's are still good at all. Some lose their punch and become a bit wooly sounding (happened to a friend of mine 55 jet) and some I've heard can become a bit sharp sounding. Of course lots of them are still great but you just don't know if you buy off ebay. And I've heard seymours are original sounding. So why not...
yeah suddenly the round up was gone. Looked like a nice project piece, if you have the time...
Love this post, am really enjoying it.
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 10:19 a.m. JackDaniels:
Thanks Graz...
Yep, it appears two things happened on the neck joint. This may be tied to the change in the joint. The neck was offset originaly from the joint itself to add stability. I mean to say is, on the dovetail version, the dove tail is not centered on the neck/heel. Look here:
You can see the dovetail is pushed off to the left side of the guitar to keep the cutaway from breaking. This is only the case on a Jet. Not on any of the normal hollowbodies.
When this happened, it is often seen that the neck is not flush to the cutaway, but has a ledge. Also in this same period we see the heels are often longer reaching all the way to the back of the body. A month or two ago we had a post on here of another jet that needed a neck set. I turned down the work at that time. It had a handmade neck if I recall but was the simular flush to the back of the guitar joint too.
The early 57's I have now examined in photos and in person, all apear to have this Mortise joint instead. Is this the time when the little ledge disappears? I am not sure. I didn't at first notice this during my research.
Andy's guitar in the end, will be basically flush in the cutaway and as it came from the factory will have the ledge on the heel toward the back.
I have the neck joint really tight now and once it is glued, it should look almost undetectable that is was off. Unfortunately there will always be some very minor signs that work was done. I will try to keep those to a minimum.
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 10:23 a.m. JackDaniels:
For those keeping up with the technical part of this: In the picture here, you can see that I taped off the body of guitar on the top and sides by the binding route. If this guitar was gonna be a total refin, I would not have done this. I would just install the binding and scrape off the glue once dry. As best I can, I am going to try and save this finish. So I have taped off the areas where the glue could attack the nitro.
I also have a file that is perfect for cleaning the binding routes. It is a perfect square file about 3/8" in size. It is just a little taller and a little wider than the binding channel. I ran that file around most of the body and cleaned all the glue out from the old stuff. It looks a clean as the day it was built. Wainting for binding....la la la la la la!
-
- Rated: 42 ↑
Apr 11, 2008 2:17 p.m. JC:
I say chaps, this is a throughly interesting thread going on here,i'm really enjoying it.
My nerves would be wrecked doing this stuff.
-
- Rated: 37 ↑
Apr 12, 2008 10:56 a.m. Nobody:
Well this is Old School GDP good stuff.
It is absolutely fascinating educationally, and exciting to see an original 6121 being reborn with due TLC. Then there is the historical discovery that goes along with it.
Ahhh yeahhhh.
Well done JD.
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 14, 2008 9:00 p.m. JackDaniels:
This is BIlly Zooms guitar. I just finished blue printing Andy's jet and it is identical to this inside. Only thing you can not see is that around each pup is thin block of wood added to the inside. It's added before the pups are routed, then the router is dropped all the way thru and routed at once.
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 17, 2008 10:38 a.m. JackDaniels:
BTW: The xray above seems to be typical for Dyna jets. Around the time of Filterons, it appears they went to a more 335-ish block layout. Basically a block from the neck to the tail.
I'll see if I have some pics!
JD
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 17, 2008 10:45 a.m. JackDaniels:
this is Billy Zoom's sig model that he posted. This is essentially what the inside of a 58-61 Jet looks like. I think Raz had a picture of his 61 with the pups out. You can see a lot of this bracing in it.
There is defintely a difference in tone and sustain between the two styles!
JD
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 17, 2008 11:11 a.m. JackDaniels:
Where are we at? Well the binding came in, but I need a little more before I start. So I ordered some more. It should be here early next week.
In the meantime I worked on two more little projects.
1) I replaced the Frets that I removed for the steam. (remember I drilled three holes in the fingerboard?) I started by shaving up some rosewood from an old guitar part. I basically turned it into saw dust. I then added a touch of glue to the mix. I made a paste that was more wood than glue. I packed it into each of the three holes and let it dry. The next day I sanded it smooth and cleaned out the fret line. The big problem with removing old frets, especially Gretsch is that the slots end up loose and the old fret does not stay in place. Gretsch used very small frets with even small tangs. So there is not much that grips the wood in the first place. I heated the fret before pulling it which contracts the metal a little and loosens any glue that they might have used. Even though I took precausions, it was still to loose to reseat. I would tap one end it, the other end would come out. So using a trick I read from Frank Ford, the luthier, as well as reading a message from Scott Lentz I tackled this job. In europe they fill the slot with black epoxy and essentaily glue the fret back in. What Frank and Scott both eludide to was that epoxy wasn't need. Just some good old polyresin (white glue) would work. The concept is simple. The white glue (titebond in my case) does not glue or stick to metal very well. But it does bond to wood extremely well. So by filling the slot with glue and pushing the fret in, you have essentailly replaced the missing and loose wood with glue. That glue dries around the tang of the frets and makes a very tight replacement. The fret can still come out with the proper tools because the glue does not stick to the fret. Basically I used the glue to close the slot a little. Seems to work well.
So how is the clamping actually done? Well, first you need to make a caul that will fit the radius of the fret. The neck on this jet is 10" radius. (thats more like a fender! Normally I think the hollowbodies are 12"). So I used my radius gauge and drew a 10" radius on a block of wood. 1x1x3". I used the sander to remove the material to expose the radius. Now I have a block of wood flat on one side for the clamp to sit on, and concave to match the fret on the bottom side. Now when I glue the fret in place, the fret is held evenly accross the entire fretboard. There should be no high spots and very minimal fret dressing will be needed to ensure it is level with the nextdoor neighbors (the adjacent frets).
I'll have to get a picture of this for you.
The neck is about done. The headstock looks good, the finish on the front of the headstock looks very nice with a touch of low-sheen to keep it from looking brand new. I touched up or sanded out a lot of nicks and scratches, but not enough to make it look un-loved.
project 2) I decided to mess around with a pickguard. Andy has a few aftermarket guards that are not quite right. And he is also looking for a reissue or even an original guard. In the meantime, I have some thiner blank NOS guards that are basically from the 58-62ish timeframe. These are the larger 6120/6118 size. So using a template from Chet 57's guard, I cropped one of these larger guards to fit. So what I have notice is the the Gretsch logo is slightly different size than the full size guard, but it looks good! Andy is working on some possibilities of getting a signpost engraved on this one. While an original one is next to impossible to find, cutting down a 50's guard is a decent alternative.
I'll post a picture of the guard too, but it will be probably this weekend. I will be at a late night gig tonight and a day trip to Denver tomorrow. So updates will be a few days away.
No worries Andy, we are getting there. This is like the slow boat to tuna town. It's a slow and drawn out process but when done, it was worth the wait! LOL.
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 17, 2008 1:24 p.m. JackDaniels:
This is drawing of the caul I made for the fret repair. It is a little unproportional, but you get the idea. (match the contour of caul to that of the fingerboard. That way the fret is held evenly).
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 8:46 p.m. JackDaniels:
Here is a little update for Andy:
I am still waiting for more binding but in the meantime: I am prepairing some of the binding that I will be using. I bend it first with a heat gun to get it close to shape. You can see even off the guitar the tight bends hold shape.
Here it is in the case with the binding sitting on top.
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 8:48 p.m. JackDaniels:
Those are the tough areas to keep tight: the cutaway and the waistline. I heated them up bent them to shape and taped them to the guitar over night. Its hard to see but that is the Celuloid Nitrate W/B/W. I have another thin piece of black comming and some more thin white. I need to get the total thickness to .100 wide and .300 tall.
JD
-
- Rated: 30 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 8:51 p.m. JackDaniels:
This is the fretted area that I drilled the holes into. They are filled and fret is reseated. The dark mark was there before I started. I think it was a previous attempt to fill a divot. I will look at that later. But for now, the holes all but disapeard. Once oiled down, it should look nice.
-
- Rated: 212 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 9:35 p.m. Proteus:
Just chiming in to say what a great thread this is, and how generous of you, JD, to share with us the minute details of so many procedures – and the thought processes behind them. (Thanks to Andy as well for agreeing to let it all be shown.)
It's not often you get not only to see a gifted and meticulous craftsman at work, but to get inside his head as well – without the resulting story being edited and filtered. This comes to us direct, and is something of a seminar in late 50s Gretsch construction.
I'm sure the result will be stunning; in the meantime, I'm enjoying the view behind the curtain.
-
- Rated: 102 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 10:16 p.m. Setzer:
I'm lovin' those crude cut Dyna holes.
I agree Proteus. Thanks Andy & Joe.
JD, it looks like it's shaping up nicely! Might I send you my '57 "Golden Eagle" for patch repairs & de customizing? The pickup holes need patched, shoot the top black. Hump top markers on the fretboard brought back. While your at it replace the headstock veneer. That should do it.
-
- Rated: 20 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 10:42 p.m. gresco:
Hey Setzer, no need to go easy on the guy. Give him a challenge! You’re gonna create a slacker outa’ him.
I would also like to echo the previous comments and thank JD & Andy for this fabulous thread. It takes a lot of the mystery out of this type of project but also reveals that these types of repairs aren’t for the faint of heart.
Cudos to you guys.
BTW recently there was a vid (I believe through these pages) that that showed a custom shop (Gibxxx I believe) installing binding. They used a veeery long lashing like wide shoelace that crisscrossed the body in a special geometric pattern (always the same) to keep the binding in place while the glue set. Kinda’ crude but effective.
-
- Rated: 83 ↑
Apr 21, 2008 11:24 p.m. Mark Synchro:
This is great stuff JD, and it's good for me because it helps me to remember that I'll never be a luthier. I don't think my nerves could handle it.
