Thanks JD and Andy for the fascinating thread! This is great to see.
Andy's "57" Chet Atkins 6121 Jet. Watch as it gets repaired.
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Apr 22, 2008 12:29 a.m. Adam:
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Apr 22, 2008 9:32 a.m. hypnofonic:
thanks guys.. i owe it all to JD cuz i sure as hell wouldnt have the balls to do what he's doing. we thought it would be kinda cool to document the whole process on the forum. im enjoying it just as much as you guys are!
now which one of you has that "spare" vintage jet case hiding in your closet doing nothing? thats what i have to find next...
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Apr 22, 2008 10:07 a.m. JackDaniels:
Hey Paul.....Hmmm if my wife doesn't kill me for taking this project on, we may need to talk! LOL. I think your old jet would be an awesome project of the largest magnitude! Although I think it is pretty awesome as is too.
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Apr 22, 2008 10:11 a.m. JackDaniels:
Gresco and all. Yes, once I have the binding on, I will most likely wrap the entire body with twine. I have something like a hemp twine that I use. Criss-cross acrros the body holding the binding tite. The big issue is the waistlines. This is where most bindings also fail. That is why I bent the binding first. It almost sits perfect into the waist with no tape. So I will glue it, tape it and then wrap it. Leave set for 24 hours.
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Apr 22, 2008 10:11 a.m. JackDaniels:
The fingerboard looks pretty good now that I see it on film. It's pretty hard to see the three holes I drilled into it. Those covered pretty nicely. As I mentioned above there is a brown spot next to the fret. I think that was filler of some sort. Also the neck had lots of old nitro from the refin in the pores. I removed most of the old gunk off the fingerboard and cleaned up the binding in many areas. Once I get it the guitar back together I will do a little final prep and clean up on the fingerboard. I am trying not to get any oil or film on it from hands or chemicals. Once I am done with any finish work I can then do the final clean up.
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Apr 22, 2008 10:20 a.m. JackDaniels:
Oh yea, you can also see that the fingerboard had sanding done across the grain. Its heavy in many spots. I will dress a little of that, but without removing all the frets, some of that will just have to stay.
JD
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Apr 22, 2008 11:04 a.m. otterbean:
AH- So you will tape the binding in place and then bind with twine while everything sets. I usually just tape it and bind with some big rubber bands that I buy at Wal-Mart. Makes it pretty quick and I don't have to keep turning the guitar over to wrap it in twine. - Does the same job but saves some time over the twine binding.
Been having fun with acetone lately?
I would like to see the fretboard caul you built and how you made it. Thats kind of a tricky job by itself. ( Ever try a Lancelot carving blade on an angle grinder in a jig. Works really well to get things started and svaes you some time.)Depending on the fretboard radius, you might be able to side feed a board into a table saw blade that is raised to the proper height and the correct diameter.
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Apr 22, 2008 11:24 a.m. JackDaniels:
I have not used the Lancelot blade before, but have used a chainsaw for some carving. I think the blade is simular?
The fingerboard cauls are simply just blocks of wood sanded to the correct radius. This jet is 10" radius. I cut a block of wood a little longer than the width of the fingerboard. I used a radius temlate I found online to mark the concave radius. Then slippled a drum sander into my drill press and sanded it out by hand. I also have one for 12" radius. You can use these for glueing frets in, or even pressing frets in if you make them out of hardwood. If you make them wide enough, they can be used to glue the necks back in too. I prefer to use a block of wood that has a cutaway over each fret for that. It allows the clamp to press on the fingerboard and not the frets. I used to have a table saw at my disposal, but that is now at my dad's shop. I tried to get it back a few years ago, but he said "no way".
I have done quite a bit of radius cutting on my table saw too. I made a top for a bar with contoured edges that were about 6" wide. All done on a table saw with a standard carbide blade. For fingerboards, I would probably set up a router jig for it. I have not done any this way, but it would probably how I would do it in the future. In the old days, I shaped them by hand with a plane. The router jig would be much better.
Acetone is great! Acetone is Great! Acetone is...man I need better ventalation. Ha ha. My shop is tiny! I literally work in shop that is 8 foot long and 5 foot wide. My bench is 5 foot long and 22" deep. My back is against the other wall! So I don't do a lot of chemicals in the shop itself. That's why its great to do this in the spring. I can do the smelly stuff on the bench in the garage.
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Apr 22, 2008 1:13 p.m. otterbean:
Yep- The lancelot blade looks like a chainsaw blade but spins at a higher rate of speed on the angle grinder. This gives a very smooth cut actually. If you mount that into a jig (bolt the angle grinder to a piece of wood on a track on a board mounted on a bench top....take a breath) you get a very smooth surface that barely needs any sanding at all.
You can also mount the lancelot on a jig made using bent pipe to cut contours. I've watched guys cut contoured seats for chairs with these things. Talk about fast. Would be great for carving an arch top guitar top actually. The hardest part would be building the jig.-
The reason I mention this thing is that it is so inexpensive to buy. You can pick them up at harbor freight every now and then. Neat little tool.
I've got a bunch of sanding drums in a variety of diameters. I'll have to go check and see what sizes I have. Some of them could be useful. Gonna build a caul of my own and save myself some money. - I've already got a homemade caul I can use for seating individual frets, but not one that can run the length of the fret board. Guess I could use it to cradle necks while I press frets too. Right now I just put a pad down on the press.
Thanks again for this thread JD. I"m enjoying it.
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Apr 22, 2008 1:46 p.m. JackDaniels:
What radius do you need?
Ok, for those who are not wood workers, PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! The two most common radius' are 10" and 12" right? Also the most common saw blades are 10" and 12" right? Are you following yet?
Very dangerious for the unskilled, but here is how I built my longer versions. Lets take the 10" version and a 10" table saw. Lower the blade on the table saw until it is under thet table top. Remove the fence and put it on the saw sideways...or clamp a board on the saw sideways as a fence. This fence will be going 90 degrees with the blade. The fence should be about 3" from the center of the blade (from the spindle). Now raise the blade so only about 1/16" is sticking above the table. Turn on the saw. Run your hardwood block down the fence and into the blade that is turning sideways. Go very slow. As you push the wood into the blade, it will make a perfect concave cut into the block of wood. Now, raise the blade again another 1/16". With this second pass, you will have an 1/8" deep concave radius of 10". That is probably enough for fret work. You can keep going and going. I did this for the bar top and made an edge that dips down almost 1" in the center. Perfect for resting your arm into. Anyway...this is a great way to make these at home without a jig. Now, 12" saws may be a little harder to come by in small shops. A 12" radial arm saw works great too. It works just the opposite. You will lower the blade into your work instead.
Hope that helps... JD
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Apr 22, 2008 1:55 p.m. donwood:
Dido, what everyone else said. Great thread and great work JD and Andy. Thanks
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Apr 24, 2008 8:02 p.m. JackDaniels:
Well here it is in its rough state. Still needs to be scraped and sanded. You can see that I started to dull the top down too. That is so I can spray nitro over the top.
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Apr 24, 2008 8:04 p.m. JackDaniels:
You can see the tape got saturated with glue up by the master volume. It caused the paint to lift a little. I will try to color match the top and fill that along with a few other spots on the top.
Also, you can see the pickguard I made from a 50's guard. It still needs the signpost logo.
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Apr 24, 2008 8:06 p.m. JackDaniels:
I was telling a story somewhere on here about working with my dad as a teen. This is a picture of a box I just opened that dad sent me home with last week. This is stuff we never finished. He is the real luthier in the family.
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Apr 24, 2008 8:10 p.m. JackDaniels:
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Apr 24, 2008 8:30 p.m. JazzBoxJunky:
Hey Joe(where ya goin with that (spray) gun in your hand)
If you dont mind me askin, what kind of adhesive did you use to glue in the binding?
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Apr 24, 2008 10:09 p.m. riz:
The only problem with using a 12" diameter blade to cut a 12" radius block is that you will wind up with a 6" radius block....good for gluing fret ends maybe but that's about it.....
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Apr 24, 2008 10:12 p.m. JackDaniels:
JBJ, I used two types from LMI. A contact aheasive that is special for binding/wood. It skinned over way to fast to use. The second was a cement that was not supposed to melt binding or nitro, but obviously did anyway. That sucks! I won't buy either product again.
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Apr 24, 2008 10:18 p.m. JackDaniels:
Riz...what you talking about? Let me think about that. Help me with the math. Man I hate math. Radius is the line from the center to the outter edge of a circle? Hmmm...that ain't gonna work. I will have to check my blocks again. That is sort of how I did my own. Not exactly, because I had a 10" table saw. So I drew a arc with a radius guide on the end of my blocks. Them using the method I mentioned, I move the fence a little to the left and right to give me the proper arch. THen I lightly sanded it to get it smooth and straight. I then used my radius gauge to make the reverse arc guide....and check the length of the block for consistancey. It's worked well for me, so I never questioned it. But I see the method of just using the blade could not work exactly as decscribed.
That is why I love this place. Just when I think I know something...I find out I don't.
J
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Apr 24, 2008 10:20 p.m. JazzBoxJunky:
I've used this with pretty good success, but I know you were using the original type binding and I'm not sure what is the best glue for that.
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Apr 24, 2008 11:09 p.m. JackDaniels:
I used both of these. The tube version worked best...but I think is what got to the finish.
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Apr 25, 2008 9:57 a.m. riz:
The proper binding adhesive for real celluloid binding is Duco cement. It can be found at most good hardware stores and comes in a green and yellow tube or small bottle. The LMI stuff I haven't tried but it says it doesn't melt celluloid which makes me suspicious. One way to reduce squeezout is to carefully paint Duco into the channel and onto the binding, and let it set up a bit. It will recharge with just the slightest amount of added Duco or acetone. Rebinding is challenging work, real hard to keep clean, and I don't like it much. You got it JD, the line from the center to the edge of the blade is the radius. You can get other arcs by moving a fence off from 90 degrees but it makes a tighter arc and more of an ellipse, or one side of one....think about it, at 90 degrees you see a portion of a circle, that is the section of your blade exposed above the table. As you change your perspective on it, i.e. moving your fence away from 90 and more toward 0 degrees (your normal table saw fence), your work sees an arc of the same height but the points of intersection with the table top have moved closer to the center. I haven't done this in a while but it's fun for putting a cove in stuff. For radius blocks, just buy the ones from Stew-Mac if yer gonna be radiusing boards with it. They're nicer wood that the LMI ones. When I need a quick clamping caul to match a specific radius I just grab one of my trusty old patternmaker's planes and whip one out real quick in some soft wood. You can make a very accurate router swing jig for making a variety of blocks, but it's easier to just buy the blocks. Or not...depends on the guy....
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Apr 25, 2008 10:09 a.m. JazzBoxJunky:
Well said Riz, thanks, I'll go one better and say, In my opinion,avoid LMI altogether, StewMac is a real company with real tools and supplies no bs or stories whatsoever.
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Apr 25, 2008 10:58 a.m. JackDaniels:
Ha Ha. Yep. I think that was my first and last order thru LMI. I just placed an order a few minutes ago with StewMac. That is who I normally use anyway. In addition to a few items I needed for this job, I also bought a a bunch of pickup templates for routing Hums/P90/Strat etc. I have been wanting to step up the shop a bit anyway. I get so many calls for work that I always turn down. I might take on a few projects this summer.
Well Guys, this project has been challanging right from the start. Remember: Getting the neck off was a bitch! Then fixing the old neck reset work to hide his errors. Then of course finding the right binding on a not so standard route. Lessons learned!
Last night I color matched the top and fixed a bunch of the chips and scrapes. I think it will blend pretty good. I'll know more this weekend.
Riz: when do we get to see your fancy work? I have high confidence that you too are quite the craftsman.
JBJ: You obviously know alot about this stuff. Common and pony up some shots of your work.
JD
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Apr 25, 2008 11:33 a.m. JazzBoxJunky:
Will do Joe, at work now, but there is a pic of some of my guitars in the "Lets see your guitars thread" in modern guitars , page 7
